Powder Monki ~ Retro Badges & Magnets

Author Topic: Fashion Dolls Then (80s) vs. Now  (Read 6327 times)

Offline zuse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2073
    • Zuse's Vintage Littlest Pet Shop Guide
Fashion Dolls Then (80s) vs. Now
« on: Tuesday 20 September 2011, 04:34 am »
A post by daddiemac (discussing dolls today, such as Liv, vs. Jem) got me thinking:
http://ghostofthedoll.co.uk/Forum/index.php?topic=1885.0

Thanks for that, appreciated, the only thing is (I'm sure several other parents will agree) that the dolls today all appear.... well very sexual  :o :o :o

This I find quite concerning with a lot of the toys/dolls on offer, either being very babyish or in my option very adult, feel likes its a no win either way.

Think this is why I got my daughter interested in 80's cartoons, you know, there was no sex and the story's seamed to carry some sort of moral and of course the fact I'm a total 80's fan probably factors in there somewhere!!!

I agree the Jem dolls are not the best looking at all and probably could have been made to look a tad better, but I don't feel there's any sexual element with these which is great........... God I'm totally ranting here, "is there any need".

Well thanks again, I'll keep looking and any other ides are appreciated. Thankfully shes now also decided she likes the Charmkins!!!!

Better get on the hunt for them.

Is that true, or is that just our modern perceptions? Like, for Jem - the makeup is pretty garish but wasn't that kind of "hot" back then?

Obviously some of the dolls now really are a bit disturbing, but I do think that some are quite nice. At least on the shelf. I never got a doll because I liked a cartoon (so, they were just long commercials?) and I don't really know if the toys now have "stories."

I browsed through the toy aisle and thought that the Moxie Teenz dolls looked very nice:



As for Barbies - there are several to skip on. But a lot of the fantasy world ones look very sparkly and cute. And I also saw these. They are "models" but I think the makeup is relatively simple compared to a lot of the dolls and I love that they are in every skin and hair color (can't do much about the "size" since they all need to fit the same clothing):







Pretty (but the dolls with molded on outfits are fairly useless):



Liv dolls are a bit odd looking, but a few have extremely pretty faces:



I really think the Jem dolls are extremely unfortunate looking. I think the proportions of them are more disturbing in their own way than any of the dolls out now. I can't argue with nostalgia, but I don't understand fresh eyes today finding her and the friends to be attractive toys:



If I had to pick the prettiest doll out there (that conveniently fits Barbie clothes), I would have to say it was the Kenner 1991 "Miss America" dolls. I don't know why I picked one as a kid - I don't think I knew what Miss America was. I just wanted the one in the pretty pink ballerina outfit. :) So, yeah, don't read too much into the dolls because when you're a little kid you're not seeing it with all the adult hindsight. And, for example, Miss America offends you, just take away the sash and you still have a nice doll. :) And I think she still looks *fairly* good by modern standards, even if the makeup is a bit dated.

http://totallyjem.jemmagic.com/kennermissamerica.html








I had a Devon doll. Seriously one of my favorite dolls ever (just really well made!) and I think it was only when I found her sash recently that I remembered she was a Miss America toy. And some parents might not have let their kid get one because of that.

Sorry for this kinda ramble but I was thinking about that comment a few days ago. Other thoughts?
« Last Edit: Tuesday 20 September 2011, 05:21 am by zuse »
Check out my Vintage Littlest Pet Shop Guide!

Hey, check out Bing Rewards. I've earned several $5 Amazon gift cards using it. :)

Offline ecpblue

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 564
  • Check out Precious Places on Facebook!!
    • Precious Places
Re: Fashion Dolls Then (80s) vs. Now
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 20 September 2011, 05:14 am »
You know it's funny b/c I was actually having a similar discussion with a friend.  I think a lot of it is perspective as well.  I am sure there were dolls in the 80s that at the time were considered inappropriate but looking back we don't think they are simply b/c compared to what is out today they aren't.  Also as a child you don't see things like that but as an adult over all I think people are more sensitive to such things.  One example of a movie that sticks out in my mind is when I was little I watched Shelley Duvall's Faerie Tale Theatre, they were my absolute favorite and I loved them!!  About 2 years ago I found the complete set on DVD at Costco, I was so excited and of course bought the set.  I called my mom and we set up a time to watch them! A boy from the  neighborhood came over and we all got settled with popcorn and everything, so excited!  As we watched them almost every word had sexual innuendo or comments! My mom and I kept exchanging glances and were shocked by what we apparently missed so many years ago!!!  The movies didn't change but we did and so did our perspectives!!  I wonder how much of what we feel about toys is because of this?!?!
Please "like" my precious places facebook page!! 
https://www.facebook.com/PreciousPlaces

Offline zuse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2073
    • Zuse's Vintage Littlest Pet Shop Guide
Re: Fashion Dolls Then (80s) vs. Now
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 20 September 2011, 05:29 am »
That's too funny about Fairie Tale Theatre. I swore I remembered a show where Robin Williams was "naked" and was The Frog Prince... and sure enough I found it on Netflix awhile back. I also really loved the 3 Little Pigs one with Jeff Goldblum as the wolf.

But back to the dolls - obviously I LOVE all the 80s dolls (well, like I said, I'm not really feeling Jem as much as some of the others). But my point is from the whole parenting angle. If I ever have kids I'm sure I'll proudly try to introduce them to toys from my own childhood. But I wouldn't eschew getting them "current" toys. Parental judgement is very important when raising kids - but I think you can overthink some things (I don't think I could fault anyone for passing over Bratz, though).



And there are some things we grew up with I think it's a miracle we still turned out okay! ;)
« Last Edit: Tuesday 20 September 2011, 05:33 am by zuse »
Check out my Vintage Littlest Pet Shop Guide!

Hey, check out Bing Rewards. I've earned several $5 Amazon gift cards using it. :)

Offline ecpblue

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 564
  • Check out Precious Places on Facebook!!
    • Precious Places
Re: Fashion Dolls Then (80s) vs. Now
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 20 September 2011, 06:21 am »
I'm sorry I know this is completely random and off topic but with your last comment I HAD to post this from facebook! 

My curfew was lightning bugs. My parents didn't call my cell, they yelled my name. I played outside with friends, not online. If I didn't eat what mom cooked, then I didn't eat. Sanitizer didn't exist, but you COULD get your mouth washed out with soap. I rode a bike without a helmet. Getting dirty was ok, and neighbors gave a darn as much as your parents did. Re-post if you drank from a garden hose and survived!

There is another one that talks about playing with toys with lead paint and being ok but I couldn't find it.  Anyway, sorry to go soooo far off topic!! 

Bratz is def. a toy I will be passing on- you know it's funny b/c even the SSC dolls outfits are smaller and tighter but I think they do it in such a way that it looks cute and it not offensive- i think that is the key
Please "like" my precious places facebook page!! 
https://www.facebook.com/PreciousPlaces

Offline mouse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 562
Re: Fashion Dolls Then (80s) vs. Now
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 21 September 2011, 04:42 pm »

Offline Fairy Dust

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
Re: Fashion Dolls Then (80s) vs. Now
« Reply #5 on: Friday 07 October 2011, 03:35 am »
I love, love, love, LOVE Jem doll!  I can see how you think they are ugly but I find them to be really cool.  I use to be a Barbie girl and then I realized several years ago that Barbie's are cheaply made and weird and that my Jem dolls were so cool when clothed and groomed properly!


I completely agree with you about the Kenner Miss America Dolls.  I still need to get NRFB of both Rachquel dolls but then I'll have them all!  My favorites are Blair and Devon.













Offline invaderhorizongreen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 587
Re: Fashion Dolls Then (80s) vs. Now
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 09 October 2011, 12:49 am »
to me a doll is just a doll, any significance of it depends on the person who views it and what their perspective is.  A doll that is a little slutty to one may be just fine to another views often changes with the times. What once was considered controversial one day may as well be fine the next.  I myself grew up with barbies but never paid them or any other doll much attention dolls were not my thing to play with.

Offline daddiemac

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: Fashion Dolls Then (80s) vs. Now
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 09 October 2011, 10:01 pm »
Hi

On reading the comments above I would say I do tend to agree with several of points made however for me the issue I have and still do is what these dolls are portraying, in both looks, makeup,fashion,accessories and image


There a few dolls out there today that are not overtly sexual (as I see it) but my issue is the majority appear to be. Is this because I'm male and see something else, I don't know? I just feel that for my young daughters (as well as me and my wife) I'd like them to see strong females out there (with the toys they play with) and that having makeup that look likes its been applied with a shovel and an outfit that in some country's would get you arrested, is not what the majority of women are like or aspire to.


Again I may be just over thinking this and its highly likely my daughters would see the things I see, but I do feel this is becoming a trend not only in dolls but in other things targeted at young girls. Makeup (no girl in my school had make up before she was about 11) for 5 year olds, shoes with a heel and young girls clothing, some of which i wouldn't expect to see on a 19yrd never mind a 6yrd.


Its difficult, I'm not some over whelming, unrealistic, out of date dad ( if my kids new the things I've got up to as a child!!), I just want to confident that products I and others buy for my children are in fact suitable and portray a stuablie image for their age.


I think general its best just to be realistic and have an open mind and to make the decision that you feel are best for your children and you.

Offline zuse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2073
    • Zuse's Vintage Littlest Pet Shop Guide
Re: Fashion Dolls Then (80s) vs. Now
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 09 October 2011, 10:46 pm »
Hmm. Just curious if you had sisters or not?

I'm also not sure if I understand the "strong females" thing. I mean, it's just a toy. When you're a little girl you make up the story and history of your dolls to whatever you want them to be.

As for makeup? I think I had my first little girl makeup kit when I was pretty young. 5? 6? And here I am today and I hardly wear any makeup if I can help it.

I kind of think that kids miss out on a lot of the subtext and messages in things if they don't have the whole picture. I never saw "grownup" shows or movies when I was a kid (no older siblings/cousins) and I didn't really know many street-smart kids. So, I just had the understanding of a 5 year old. You give a little girl a "fashion doll" with breasts and all it means to her is that she has a doll that looks like grownups (mom, aunt, etc.) that she can dress up. And it might inspire her to ask mom about when she herself will grow up (including breasts). Sorry if that's uncomfortable to hear from a 4 or 5 year old but it's just genuine curiosity.

I'd worry more about the little boys getting into the Barbie dolls. Why were all my Barbie dolls naked after my boy cousin (same age as me) went home, hmm? XD

I guess I'll find out for sure how I feel, though, once I have kids. Right now I'm just observing those around me.

And sort of another related topic:
My cousin and his wife are into the whole scifi/gaming thing (and sports). They watched in horror as their niece was raised a "Disney Princess." She had all sorts of princess gear and had yearly trips to Disney World. Well, they eventually have a daughter of their own and VOWED that she would not have pink and princess things. She will have Star Wars and play lots of sports, etc. Well, of course the first day of daycare she finds a little Cabbage Patch doll and falls in love with it. They eventually have to buy one just like it for her. And after her first haircut she gets to pick a sticker at the salon... and she picks one with a Disney Princess. Maybe the other kids got to her, I don't know. But I don't believe that the "gender stereotypes" are 100% societal pressure.
« Last Edit: Sunday 09 October 2011, 10:53 pm by zuse »
Check out my Vintage Littlest Pet Shop Guide!

Hey, check out Bing Rewards. I've earned several $5 Amazon gift cards using it. :)

Offline catlover51

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 363
Re: Fashion Dolls Then (80s) vs. Now
« Reply #9 on: Monday 10 October 2011, 04:45 pm »
This is very good and tells both sides.

 http://www.amazon.com/Good-Bad-Barbie-History-Impact/dp/0670011878/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1318261137&sr=8-1

The body was based on a sex doll originally!
On the other hand she was made at a time when women were 'good little women' and she promoted that woman can get into any career they aspire to.
Some hate, some love her.

As a by the by Barbie and Ken were inspired by the 2 kids of the creator so they were based on siblings and the dolls were married. ick


Offline Stefanie

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Re: Fashion Dolls Then (80s) vs. Now
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 11 October 2011, 03:07 pm »
Actually, although the dolls were named after the Handler's children- Barbara and Ken, they weren't exactly inspired by them. And although Ken was often Barbie's boyfriend, and I suppose they 'got married' with several versions of wedding outfits through the years, Barbie & Ken weren't supposed to be married. Barbie was always the star, and she was, and is, and independent woman! So, there should be no 'ick' factor, unless one just doesn't like Barbie. (I'm not a huge fan myself, but I've never found the whole thing the least bit incestuous!)

Offline Mysstica

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 638
Re: Fashion Dolls Then (80s) vs. Now
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 15 October 2011, 11:00 pm »
Bratz seem too sexual to me, but I wouldn't let me daughter wear a shirt that said "Babe," either, and there are some parents that are cool with stuff like that.

*giggle* I had gotten out my old Barbies the other day so my daughter and a friend's daughter could play with them, and me and the other girl's daughter were playing with them as well. I still have one of those lingerie outfits that were made for Barbie, but it wasn't until that night that I realized how CRAZY that is. Yes, Barbie had lingerie. Yes, I put them on her over and over again. But it wasn't until (what, 17 years later??) that I realized it was lingerie. ;)

 

anything
anything