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Author Topic: Unproduced toys in catalogs  (Read 6358 times)

Offline ecpblue

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Unproduced toys in catalogs
« on: Sunday 02 October 2011, 11:41 pm »
So I am a little confused and perhaps may be thinking too literally but maybe someone can explain this to me and kelp me figure it out.  So a catalog is something that is sent out to potential customers for them to order from correct?  Which means that when you receive a catalog and see something you like that means you can call/email the company, place an order and that item is shipped to you.  There are so many catalog images that I have come across, especially in the 80s and 90s, that say that the toys pictured were never produced.  I don't understand how this is??  If a person receives a catalog and placed the order I would think that the company would have made enough of the items to cover the predicted order before they send out the catalog???  I just do not understand......does anyone know about this??  Are the items actually unproduced or just produced in such a low number that they are next to impossible to find?
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Offline pikapal

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Re: Unproduced toys in catalogs
« Reply #1 on: Monday 03 October 2011, 12:07 am »
Some catalogs are dealer catalogs that feature prototypes that are never made like the 3rd year of Jem dolls.

Offline Wardah

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Re: Unproduced toys in catalogs
« Reply #2 on: Monday 03 October 2011, 01:40 am »
Some catalogs are dealer catalogs that feature prototypes that are never made like the 3rd year of Jem dolls.

This is true. Dealers get the catalogs way in advance so the toy company knows exactly how much to make. If none of the dealers order the stuff it never gets mass produced.

Offline zuse

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Re: Unproduced toys in catalogs
« Reply #3 on: Monday 03 October 2011, 02:52 am »
Also, I know of a couple of things in Wishbooks that people actually remember trying to get their parents to order and were told they were sold out.

(These are things were few to none of that item are known to exist).
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Offline ecpblue

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Re: Unproduced toys in catalogs
« Reply #4 on: Monday 03 October 2011, 03:55 am »
Thanks guys!!  Although I am still not sure I fully get it and I KNOW it does not make me feel ANY better about those items that people say "were never produced" that I REALLY want lol!!  I mean I guess there are at least prototypes out there b/c how else did they take the picture!?!?!  So I will attempt to hold on to SOME hope lol   ;-)  But still, I want those items- top of my list is the precious places carnival set pictured on my facebook page, -some say they were never produced, BUT when I called, fisher price told me they were mass produced just in MUCH smaller numbers I am not sure I believe them as I have been searching for about 10 years!  If anyone knows any thing about these or has pics I would LOVE to see them!!!  Does anyone have items that they would be willing to share pics of that are just prototypes or items that were never produced??  Stefanie, I think you said that you have some, could you share???  :-)
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Offline NightSprite

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Re: Unproduced toys in catalogs
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 04 October 2011, 04:34 am »
It's heartbreaking, isn't it? Those tantalizing prototypes or very limited run toys kill me every time. I love some of the Moon Dreamers that were never made, and I really drool over the very rare Rose Petal Place second series dolls. Oh well.  ;)

Offline ecpblue

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Re: Unproduced toys in catalogs
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 04 October 2011, 04:43 am »
UGH it really is!!!  I am on the same page as you with those two!!  SOOOOOOO frustrating and sooooo jealous of whoever has those elusive prototypes!!!!!!  GGRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!
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Offline invaderhorizongreen

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Re: Unproduced toys in catalogs
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 04 October 2011, 11:12 pm »
i know someone here posted about finding alot of prototypes for the little beauties line it was a nice pic. sometimes it makes me sad to look back at what never was.

Offline Stefanie

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Re: Unproduced toys in catalogs
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 05 October 2011, 10:24 pm »
What we in the toy industry call 'catalogs' are not necessarily what consumers consider catalogs. These toy catalogs are published every January/ February, and reflect what the toy companies are showing to the toy trade at New York Toy Fair every February. These catalogs are generally never seen by the public.  They are not catalogs that individuals order from. They are the catalogs that the toy stores order from. Often there is a price sheet that goes along with the catalog, that is the retail price of the item. The price is never mentioned in the catalog itself. Many of the items in the catalogs are prototypes, photographed nearly a year before the product would hit the shelves. There are many reasons why the toy companies would stop production, or drop a product, or not start production at all. It takes nearly a year for a toy to be manufactured, so things that are in the catalog in February, often change a little or a lot by October or November, when they are finally released.  If there are not very many orders placed at Toy Fair, or if sales on the current line are slow, if the major toy buyers do not like the product and refuse to support it, if a competitor comes out with a superior, less expensive similar item, etc are some reasons why a line might never be produced.

I share your frustration with some of these toys, seeing them in the catalogs and never seeing the 'real thing'. I designed the entire line of 2nd year Moondreamers dolls, except for the Sun Finders, and I would KILL for one of my prototypes. I do have some of my original drawings, but it's not the same as the cute models.  (I slightly edited my original post to correct a few things)
« Last Edit: Tuesday 11 October 2011, 05:18 am by Stefanie »

Offline ecpblue

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Re: Unproduced toys in catalogs
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 09 October 2011, 12:21 am »
Stefanie I knew you could help with this even though others explained I was still confused :-) It makes sense now lol!  Thanks for the explanation!  Who goes to the toy fairs? Can anyone go?  BTW I think it is REALLY unfair that they make the prototypes simply to tease us with :-)

That stinks about the moondreamers, why didn't you get to keep the prototypes if you designed them?  Who gets to keep them?
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Offline invaderhorizongreen

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Re: Unproduced toys in catalogs
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 09 October 2011, 12:45 am »
i do not think that prototypes are  purposely made it just makers way of putting out ideas to the potential market.  Sometimes the ideas never make it or a company changes their mind thinking that no one would buy that particular toy.  or a certain toy of a line does not sell well and that costs companies money so they are kinda hesitant to put money out on it.  In all it seems like a gamble for anyone who produces the toy line. make to much and they become peg warmers or you get stuck with excess inventory  . make to little and you cant meet demand and by the time you do get enough the market has dried up.  From a company's point of view it seems any toy line is putting your time/effort/money on the line with no guarantee of return for what you put in.

Offline mouse

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Re: Unproduced toys in catalogs
« Reply #11 on: Monday 10 October 2011, 02:25 am »
Yup prototypes aren't to tease collectors they're made so the toy company has a toy to show that they will put into production if there's enough interest.

As far as I know only buyers (like for shopping centres, not people who buy from shopping centres) can go to Toy Fairs - so like representatives whose job it is to select which toys the franchise they work for is going to sell. Also I think people who do toy reviews may be invited.

Prototypes are actually the property of the toy company - not the individual designer or the person who worked on that piece. Just like with anything that you do at work, it belongs to who you work for. A lot of prototypes probably end up being destroyed because it's too expensive to store them all. If the toy designer is free lance and brings a prototype to a company and they look at it and say no then I think that would be different and they could keep it because the idea has not been bought by the company. If you work for a toy company and your job is to have ideas for toys, then any idea you show, even if they don't use it, becomes their property (which is with the whole bratz/mattel thing - I'm pretty sure the guy was working for mattel when he came up with Bratz and mattel didn't like it and after he left then he showed the idea to other toy companies and the line was produced and Mattel got all iffy about it because the idea was made 'on their time' so to speak) If I've got any of that wrong feel free to correct me!

Offline ecpblue

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Re: Unproduced toys in catalogs
« Reply #12 on: Monday 10 October 2011, 03:33 am »
Mouse, not that I know but I fell like that makes SOOOOO much sense!!  I didn't even think about that!1  Which is funny since I have done some photography work for a newspaper and had to turn over all my memory cards and at one time film lol!  Although it is a shame if they are destroyed!!  I know that fisher price keeps many of their prototypes in their toy museum (I think every toy company should have 1 so the public can at least see them!) Besides an interest in the toy I think it is fun to see the process and learn about ideas that make it and those that don't. 

I know prototypes are not made to tease but they sure feel that way!!  :-)

Does anyone know anything else about going to toy fairs?
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Offline Stefanie

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Re: Unproduced toys in catalogs
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 11 October 2011, 05:34 am »
Toy Fair is for the toy trade only. Although small toy stores send their buyers to Toy Fair, generally the large toy companies favor the Big Buyers: Walmart, Toys R Us, Target, etc. (We used to call them "the Marts", because K-mart was included, but K-Mart is a much smaller buyer now). Toy Fair catalogs are really hard to come by. If you work for one toy company, you can't get a competitor's catalog, for obvious reasons. It's because Toy Fair is in February, and the toys don't generally come out until fall, before Christmas. No one wants their ideas pilfered!

Prototypes are made for a few reasons: the first is to have something to photograph for the catalog. It needs to look just like the toy will when it's manufactured. Another reason is to have a model for internal review and changes. We modify our designs all the time, and generally, a model is made with each major revision. Sometimes they will need to be re-photographed.

Mouse is right about who goes to Toy Fair. So, buyers, the press, inventors, representatives from the Toy Industry Association, are some of the attendees. I have gone to many many toy fairs... sometimes as a representative for my company ( I have worked for 6), sometimes as an inventor, sometimes as an assistant for a freelance account. Generally, the years that I went as an inventor it was very difficult if not impossible to get into the Hasbro or Mattel showrooms. (Toy Fair is different today than it was a few years ago... the large toy companies no longer have the huge presence they once did. But that's another story)

As far as Bratz/ MGA/ Mattel goes, I do know the story of how the whole mess came to be, and it's not exactly as Mouse says... the inventor never  presented his concept to Mattel. If he had, it would have been much simpler to sue MGA and win. However, "technically" he did some preliminary sketches on Mattel paper, while he was on unpaid leave, trying to decide what to do with his ideas. But this is a very long story, and I don't think it's really my place to tell all of the details. (I'm leaving out his name on purpose here).

Mouse is also very correct about who owns the prototypes. I have very few prototypes. I wish I had them all, but as was said before, they belonged to my employer. I did manage to sneak out a few of my drawings, to put in my portfolio. I have quite a few packed away in folders in my garage.  Nowadays it's so much easier, as all my artwork is done on the computer! But back then, everything was drawn by hand and colored with markers and paint. Some of my old drawings haven't stood the test of time very well... fading, tearing, etc is pretty common with these old drawings. Today, I work for Spin Master, and we do dispose of a lot of old stuff. I recently threw away the original prototype for the Liv Lodge that I designed... it was a mess- broken, chipped, warped. I mean, who can haul around that old stuff? LOL!
« Last Edit: Tuesday 11 October 2011, 05:39 am by Stefanie »

Offline ecpblue

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Re: Unproduced toys in catalogs
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 22 October 2011, 11:26 pm »
Thanks everyone for explaining!!  It all makes sense now although I am still NOT happy about it!!  :-)  I REALLY want some of those toys!!!  :-)
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