The Lyall Family of Ireland & Lincolnshire

Sponsored Links
Check out my TOY SALES on eBay!

A request for help caught my eye on the Facebook group Ancestry UK Friendly Family History Group posted by member SR looking for the birth of relative Kathleen Newman LYALL. Her family bible gave Kathleen’s birthdate as 29th Dec 1924 and placed her as the daughter of Henry LYALL and Mabel NEWMAN. However, no matching birth record could be found with the mother’s maiden name Newman.

Several members replied with useful help and links to records, including a birth registration for Kathleen Newman LYALL with the mother’s maiden name VESEY in 1Q 1925, Kensington District. From further comments, SR stated that Kathleen had a brother named Frank Frederick Julian LYALL who married Mary VESEY. However, she also went on to say that Frank was considerably older than Kathleen (born in 1897) and that Henry and Mabel were in their 50s when Kathleen was born. Later research would confirm both Henry and Mable were dead by 1916, so couldn’t possibly be Kathleen’s parents.

It appeared to be a simple case of confusion in SR’s bible mixing up Kathleen’s parents with her grandparents. However, finding the records to confirm this took a little longer than usual due to each of the people in question having different original first names than in SR’s bible.

After a few hours of digging through records, an interesting story emerged including military exploits, reoccurring venereal disease, transatlantic crash landings and rugby! The tale begins with Kathleen’s paternal great-grandparents, George Julian LYALL and his wife Marian BENNETT.

George Julian LYALL & Marian BENNETT

George Julian LYALL was born in Jan 1825 (or possibly late 1824) in Ashby, Lincolnshire and was the second of eight children born to John LYALL (1875-1843) and his wife Rebecca FRESHNEY (1795-1858). His middle name “Julian” was his paternal grandmother’s maiden name.

George hasn’t been identified in the 1841 census, and by 1851 was likely living in Ireland where on 31st Oct 1857 he married Marian BENNETT at Newmarket, Cork. Marian stated to be 21 and was “of Maidstone, Kent”, whilst George was 32 and lived in Newmarket and was employed as a land steward. Marian was actually 23 when she married but always insisted she was two years younger thought her life. Marian was born in 1836 in Roehampton, Surrey and baptised “Mary Ann” in  Putney on 19th Jun. She was the youngest of six known children of Thomas BENNETT, a servant, and his wife Elizabeth (nee unknown).


George and Marian had nine children born in Newmarket between 1859 and 1872 (one sadly died). The family moved to Bowthorpe, Norfolk, England in 1873 where they tragically lost their two youngest children in Dec 1873 and Feb 1874 (the last of which died within a day or two on either side of the birth of their tenth child, Henry). Their 6-year-old son passed away in late 1875 and the family then moved to Tuddenham, Suffolk where their eleventh and final child was born the following year.

In total, four of George and Marian’s eleven children died young, and five passed away between the ages of 27 and 43 (with one unaccounted for).

  1. John Bennet Lyall (c.1859-1892, died age 32) m.1885 to Ann Skelton (1 child) ~ Police Constable
  2. Frances Elizabeth Lyall (c.1861-1904, died age 43) m.1877 to Robert Edward Barber (13 children)
  3. Charles Julian Lyall (1864-1927, died age 62) m.1889 to Emma Jane HACKER (no children) ~ Brewer’s Labourer
  4. Lucy Marian Lyall (1865-1893, died age 27) m.1888 to Arthur Gray (1 child, mother and baby died after birth)
  5. Mary Julian Lyall (1867-1969, died age 1)
  6. George Oliver Lyall (1869-1875, died age 6)
  7. Sarah Maude Lyall (1870-?) had an illegitimate daughter in 1889
  8. Rhoda Alice Lyall (1871-1873, died age 2y 6m)
  9. Tom Lyall (1872-1874, died age 1y 6m)
  10. Phillip Henry Lyall aka Henry (1874-1916, died age 42) m.1896 to Violet Mabel NEWMAN aka Mabel (1 child) and 1914 to Sarah ROGERS (1 child)
  11. Robert Christmas George Lyall (1876-1920, died age 43) m.1903 to Sarah WARD (no children)

The family were living at Station Road, Halton Holegate, Lincolnshire when the 1881 census was taken. George was now 56 and working as an agricultural labourer and Marian was recorded as a dressmaker (age 43, but actually 45). Their two eldest sons had left home to find work and their eldest daughter had married in 1877 at age 16 (and just pregnant), leaving four children between the ages of 4 and 15. When the 1891 census was conducted, only their two youngest children were living at home at Station Road, Alford, Lincolnshire. Henry (17) was working as a domestic groom, and Robert (14), was employed as an errand boy. Marian died only a few weeks later aged 55 (but recorded as 53), and had been working as a monthly sick nurse.

Phillip Henry LYALL & Violet Mabel NEWMAN (aka Henry and Mabel)

Whether his mother’s death was a contributing factor is unknown, but just a few months later Henry (still 17) enlisted in the Grenadier Guards on 17th Nov 1891. Three months later he was in hospital with Neuralgia, which was just the tip of the iceberg when it came to his health, as Henry was also beginning to show signs of venereal disease. He was admitted to hospital in London on 7th Oct for four days for balanitis but was back in again on 13th Oct 1892 and diagnosed with primary syphilis. He remained in their care for 64 days before being discharged on 16th Dec, only to return six days later with “lunacy” attributed to exposure. Henry was released from the hospital after a further 20 days to resume his duties with the 3rd Battalion in London, where he managed to stay out of trouble until his syphilitic symptoms returned on 16th Aug 1893. He was transferred to Deptford, Kent the following day and received a further 120 days of treatment (where his case was described as “severe“).

Henry returned to his duties on 14th Dec and was sent to Dublin, Ireland on 13th Jan the following year. Syphilis reared its ugly head yet again and he spent twelve days in hospital receiving the last treatment to be recorded for this particular ailment. Henry was back in London on 26th Mar 1894 and all was well up to Aug 1895 when he spent sixteen days in hospital for treatment on a rather nasty ingrowing toenail. He was back on duty on 23rd Aug, but in hospital again for seven days on 20th Sep with rheumatism. On his release, he was sent to Woolwich, Kent but immediately returned to the hospital the following day still suffering from rheumatism. After a further thirteen days, he was out. He managed a full month before being admitted to hospital yet again, this time with a black cataract and eight days of treatment. After his release on 13th Nov, and for the first time in his military career, he had no further hospital visits. Three months later on 5th Feb 1896, his father George died in Louth Workhouse, Lincolnshire aged 71 (recorded as 78).


Whilst in London, Henry met Violet Mabel NEWMAN (aka Mable), who had moved from her home town in Biddenden, Kent to find work. Mable was born on 11th Sep 1870 and baptised “Mabel Newman” on 30th Oct, with no mention of the name “Violet” appearing in records until she left home. She was the second of eight children born to Frederick NEWMAN (a farmer) and his wife Fanny MUNN. Mable was working in St George Hanover Square, London as a restaurant maid in 1891 and gave her age as 19 when the census was taken, but was actually 20. She and Henry were married on 2nd April 1896 at the Register Office in Chelsea. Shortly after, he was sent to Windsor, Berkshire, returning to London on 1st May. Their first and only child was born in Mablethorpe, Lincolnshire (where Henry’s married sister Mrs Frances BARBER now lived), almost exactly nine months after their wedding. Henry was described as a “Private Soldier” at his son’s baptism on 7th Feb 1897, who was recorded as “Frank Julian Lyall” in the church register and “Frederick Frank Julian LYALL” in the births register (he went by “Frank“). His additional middle name “Arthur Patrick Newman” only began to appear in much later records. Frank was baptised with a cousin of the same name, Frank Julian BARBER.

  1. Frederick Frank Julian Arthur Patrick Newman Lyall (10th Jan 1897 – 8th Aug 1952) m.1919 to Bridget Gertrude Mary Vasey

The Second Boer War began on 11th Oct 1899. Henry embarked aboard the SS Goorkha on 21st Oct, returning to England as a Lance Corporal on 20th Sep 1900 after eleven months and no further admissions to hospital. He was awarded the South Africa Medal with five clasps (Belmont, Modder River, Johannesburg, Diamond Hill and Orange Free State) and two badges. His younger brother Robert also enlisted and spent nine and a half years in the Royal Garrison Artillery.

Henry, Mable and Frank were living at 26 Delhi Street, Islington, London when the 1901 census was taken on the evening of 31st Mar, and was working as a railway policeman. The last entry on his military medical sheet was 26th Apr 1901, but no discharge date was included. Frank was sent to study at Slade Boys School in Tonbridge, Kent, which opened four days after his 10th birthday in 1907. He was there until at least 1910 and was mentioned a couple of times in the local paper performing in the school plays.

Things now get a bit confusing as in 1909 Henry fathered a child with Sarah ROGERS, an unmarried 29-year-old barmaid from Clapham, Surrey. Sarah was living at 30 Pembroke Street, Barnsbury (in the borough of Islington), London when she gave birth to their daughter Mabel Lyall ROGERS on 11th Dec (soon after changing her name to Mabel Kate LYALL).

  1. Mabel Kate Lyall (1909-1998) m.1941 to Philip William Raymond Glover (2 children) ~ emigrated to Canada

Henry’s wife Mable may have died by this time (and was certainly dead by 1914), but no death record has been found for her in any year. Neither Henry, Sarah nor their daughter have been discovered in the 1911 census, whilst Frank was (possibly) still living in Tonbridge, age 14 and boarding with Mrs Eliza FUNNELL.

Henry and Sarah married on 5th Oct 1914 at the Islington Register Office whilst living at 23 Regina Road, Tollington Park, London. Two days before marrying, Henry re-enlisted in the army, this time in the London Regiment. He was promoted to Sergeant and appointed Master Cook on 5th Oct with the 41st Reserve and transferred to the 2nd Reserve on 12th Dec. Four months later, on 17th Apr 1915, he was promoted to Acting Quartermaster Sergeant then Acting Sergeant Major two months after that. On 1st Sep he was transferred as Acting Regimental Sergeant Major in the 1st Reserve and appointed W/O Superintending Inspector in the Nov and attached to the Central Force School of Cookery.

Henry became ill around Christmas 1915, which was later discovered to be Tuberculosis (elsewhere, his brother Robert, who worked for the GPO, re-enlisted as a Signalman with the Royal Engineers). Henry lost over four stones in weight over the following few months and on the 1st Aug 1916 was discharged from the army as he was no longer fit to serve. The family moved to 10 Upper Tollington Park where he briefly found work as a hall porter, but died from TB on 31st Oct 1916 aged 42 (recorded as 41). His brother Robert died in 1920 from chronic laryngitis (aged 43).


Sarah was entitled to Henry’s war pension, which was sent to her at 84 Hollingsbury Road, Brighton, Sussex, where she and her daughter lived for a short time. In 1921, they were back in Islington, residing at 148 Tollington Park. Sarah was living alone back in Brighton, Sussex at the age of 59 in 1939, while Mable (31) was working as a chambermaid at the Crown Hotel in Weymouth, Dorset. She married two years later to Philip William Raymond GLOVER on 8th April 1941 in Brighton and the couple later emigrated to Canada, where they had two children. Sarah passed away from heart failure on 30th June 1958 in Chelsea, London at the age of 78.

Frederick Frank Julian Arthur Patrick Newman LYALL & Bridget Gertrude Mary VESEY (aka Frank and Gertrude)

After finishing his studies, Frank found work with the Eastern Railway Company training in telegraphy at Tunbridge Station (c.1914). He then transferred to the Marconi Company in Clifden, Galway, Ireland where he met local schoolmistress Bridget Gertrude Mary VESEY (who went by Gertrude, and Mary Gertrude in records). Gertrude was born on 8th Apr 1898 in Clifden and was one of at least seven children born to Martin Joseph VESEY, a national school teacher, and his wife Winnifred Teresa VESEY (likely cousins of some degree).

Frank joined the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve after war broke out, and he and Gertrude announced their engagement in Mar 1917. They married on 28th Feb 1919 in Clifden as “Frank Lyall” and “Gertie Vasey” but their wedding was marred by sadness as the previous month Gertrude’s 25-year-old brother Patrick had died of pneumonia whilst studying at Dublin Municipal College of Wireless Telegraphy.


Alcock and Brown Transatlantic Flight

On 15th Jun 1919, the first transatlantic crossing by air took place, piloted by Captain John Alcock and Lieutenant Arthur Brown. They took off from St John’s, Newfoundland, Canada and crashlanded in bogland south of the Marconi Wireless Station at Clifden of which Frank was the manager. He and fellow worker George CLIFTON ran out to meet them, exclaiming “What the devil do you eejits think you’re doing landing in the Irish bog?” 

“The first direct non-stop flight across the Atlantic was successfully accomplished on June 14-15 by two British aviators, Capt. John Alcock, D.S.C. (pilot), and Lieut. Arthur Whitten Brown (navigator) flying a British machine with a British motor-a Vickers- Vimy aeroplane with Rolls-Royce twin-engines. They left St. John’s, Newfoundland, at 5.13 p.m., summertime, on June 14, and landed in Ireland at 9.40 a.m. on the following morning, in a bog close to the Marconi wireless station at Clifden, in Galway. The coast-to-coast flight of 1880 miles over the sea had thus been made in 15 hours 57 mins. By this splendid achievement, Capt. Alcock and Lieut. Brown have won the prize of $10,000 offered by the “Daily Mail.” Describing their experiences afterwards, Capt Alcock said: “We have had a terrible journey. The wonder is we are here at all. We scarcely saw the sun or the moon or the stars. For hours we saw none of them. The fog was very dense, and at times we had to descend to within 300 ft. of the sea. For hours the machine was covered in a sheet of ice caused by frozen sleet. The only thing that upset me was to see the machine at the end get damaged. From above the bog looked like a lovely field, but the machine sank into it up to the axle and fell over onto her nose. We landed in the softest part of Ireland!” Within half an hour of starting, the armature arm connected to the propeller of the wireless set sheered completely off, and this made it impossible to send out wireless messages.” “


Frank and Gertrude remained in Ireland until the early 1920s before moving to Kensington, London where their only child, Kathleen Newman Patricia LYALL, who went by “Pat“, was born in 1924.

  1. Kathleen Newman Patricia LYALL (29 Dec 1924 – Nov 1995) m.1956 to Grahame Gerald Pope (2 children)

When the 1939 Register was taken in the Oct Frank (age 42) was working at Electra House, 84 Moorgate, the wartime London base for Cable & Wireless Limited, employed as a “Telecommunication Services Administrative Officer.” His wife and daughter were living at 55 Park Road, Hampton Hill near Twickenham with the Bowes-Cavanagh family (possibly as borders). Electra House sustained serious damage on the last night of the London blitz on 10th May 1941 and all employees were moved to another building of the same name on Victoria Embankment.

Frank re-enlisted in the RAF Air Training Corps during WWII, serving as Flag Officer (1942) and Flight Lieutenant (1944). He was a big Rugby fan, and as secretary of Rosslyn Park Rugby Club (a position he held until his death), he organised many war-time matches. Frank had started out as the secretary of the Exiles Rugby Club and later became secretary of the Surrey Rugby Union.


By 1946 Frank, Gertrude and Pat had moved to 18 Cole Park Road, Twickenham where electoral records show them living together up to 1952, when Frank sadly died aged 55 at St John’s Hospital, Twickenham on 8th Aug. Gertrude and Pat remained at 18 Cole Park Road, possibly taking in a couple of borders before Gertrude died in 1955 aged 57 (although incorrectly recorded as being a much younger 50). Pat, now 31, married the following year to Grahame Gerald POPE of nearby Teddington and had two children in 1957 and 1960. She died in 1995 aged 70.



RESEARCH & REFERENCE

I use many different resources during my research, a majority of which I do online. For this project, I used:

Newspaper articles reproduced with the permission of the British Newspaper Archive and The British Library Board.

If you have any questions regarding my research or would like anything added or amended, please contact me. I’m also available to hire to trace family trees and delve into the history of your house.

(Visited 22 times, 1 visits today)